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RE: What's a better school?

javykixs — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:56:56 GMT

I think this topic brings up a great discussion about a good teacher, and just a teacher. It's kind of like sports. Typically the best player on the court/field isn't necessarily the best coach/teacher when they try to enter the league again. However, there are those rare instructors out there that are great Sport Karate competitors who won a World Title and who happens to teach martial arts. I've been around several World Champions, and trained with and under them too, and my experience has been great instruction. For instance, my sensei - Wayne Tyler, has produced some World Champion students (myself being one), but has also won a World Title on NASKA. There has been probably a handful of instructors that won a title and are not very good teachers. Sometimes... it's all whether you have it or not. I consider myself to be a good teacher, but like the old saying goes: 'you're only as good as your last class'. So, I'm not there yet... ;)

RE: What's a better school?

Fluffy — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:40:12 GMT

Be up-front and honest. Make sure they know all the little costs involved; testing, tourneys, gear, a second uniform.....whatever. Invite parents to watch classes, the more active they are in the child’s MA training - the more comfortable they will be with a long term commitment. Also have a 30 day intro - not one day or one week - 30 days! That way, they may be able to see more of training before signing up on a program.

Finally and a money back guarantee of some type 4 months max - I do two months myself, and outs for the both of you in a contract.

The point is you want a win-win situation, if you are not both comfortable with it then you will loose the student in the long run.

RE: What's a better school?

Scott — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:03:09 GMT

[quote][b]Fluffy (7/2/2006)[/b][hr]

:hehe: I'll put my 2 cents in here!

I feel there are 4 types of school owners;

1) the Champ - the tourney winner who pushes their students into tourney after tourney because that is what they were trained to do. That is what they enjoy. They are usually very good kickers, punchers and are in good shape.

2) the Teacher - this person knows how to communicate with students. Understands that TMA's are more than the ability to kick and punch well. Not always a National Champ, but has solid technique and is able to pass it on to the next generation.

3) the Businessman - this person knows how to communicate with their clients, now that is not always the student - but parents. The school will be 90 to 99% children, and will have high prices with super-multi-year contracts (we're talking 5 year +) This person has a staff to teach, while he upgrades and smoozes with the parents.

OK the 4th type gets it. He is a combo of all three of the previous types. He can be a former champ - with great skill, he is a great instructor who is able to communicate effectively with his (or her) students, and they understand that to train good martial artists they must keep the doors open - thus be politicians and understand business as well. [/quote]

unfortunately, people (adults who want to train or kid's parents) wont really know the difference between all 4 unless they have been in the school for at least 3 months. This is, of course, after they have signed a contract and can't get out for at least 6 or 12 months.

What do you think is the best approach for new comers? I have always struggled to give a very good, not wishy-washy, advice to people who have asked me. There are just too many variables.

RE: What's a better school?

Fluffy — Sun, 02 Jul 2006 23:01:02 GMT

:hehe: I'll put my 2 cents in here!

I feel there are 4 types of school owners;

RE: What's a better school?

swlisman — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:38:30 GMT

This particular school no longer exists in this area. The owner and his wife have moved on to another city. Thanks for the comment, though.

Scot W. Lisman

RE: What's a better school?

Flying Bo — Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:44:12 GMT

well said, scot.

what school was this? I want to make sure I beat them on the bloody ground. lol

RE: What's a better school?

swlisman — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:17:45 GMT

What truly makes a better martial arts school, to me, is the instructor him/herself. I, myself have never won a grand champion or world champion title, but I always have students who place well in competition. Tournaments, however, are not the be-all/end-all of validating the quality of a school, regardless of style. There was once a school in my town that produced one world champion student after another, some with multiple titles to their name. Despite the vast talent and noteriety of the school and it's instructing staff, most of the students there were total jerks. They had the social skills of a dead moose. In most schools, students are taught to avoid street fights at all costs and to use your skills only if there is no other way out. These aforementioned students would use intimidation and flash their skills in your face to get you to back down. If a fight did occur, they would whine and cry about how they tried so hard to avoid the fight and there was no other choice by them but to leave you in a bloody mess on the ground. Many times these students ended up in court, but because the head instructor was also a corrections officer, most of these cases were dismissed. The point I'm trying to make here is this: If we want to teach our students only to fight, then we're only teaching them less than half of what the martial arts teach. We are not teaching them to be courteous to others, to stand up for what is right and to never give up. Most importantly, we are not teaching them how to avoid a fight, which is the first step in self defense. Don't get me wrong, I love tournaments and competition, but I don't want my students to go through the ranks to become only half of a black belt. If all I teach them is how to fight, I'm only robbing them of a valuable martial arts education.

Scot W. Lisman

Heartland Taekwondo

RE: What's a better school?

MarcoPolo — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:20:11 GMT

For me, it depends on how long it's been since the instructor received the grand champion, regardless of their age. If its been only a couple of years and still active in major competition, then I would go with them. But, if it's been more than that, especially if more than 5 years, that I would go with a trainer.

RE: What's a better school?

Flying Bo — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:59:23 GMT

anymore comments about this? This is really good topic

RE: What's a better school?

Prince Loeffler — Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:20:47 GMT

[quote][b]Sha Poe Ryu (1/31/2006)[/b][hr]

I would go with the Trainer due to his ability to focus the fighter and his ability to see beyond what the fighter sees, as compared to a fighter who focuses on chance and drawing from risk instead of good solid knowldge concerning the fighters own technique.

[/quote]

I agree as well. But being a trainer does not equate being a teacher. However, if you are talking in terms of the sports aspect of Martial arts ( Another thread altogether) then yes you need a trainer not a sensei.

[quote][b]Sha Poe Ryu (1/31/2006)[/b][hr]

Expeirance is a must and when you find a good solid trainer you will soon find out if you lissen that he has expeirance other wise how could he train anyone !

[/quote]

I disagree with this statement. One name will come to mind: Angelo Dundee

RE: What's a better school?

Scott — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:24:07 GMT

I agree with Sha Poe Ryu.

I would go with an instructor who create champions. This tells you that they can teach. Its up to the students to do the rest.

RE: What's a better school?

Flying Bo — Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:39:32 GMT

Hello Sha Poe Ryu. First...welcome to our community.

[quote][b]Sha Poe Ryu (1/31/2006)[/b][hr]A good trainer who traines champions will tell you the champion was a good student.[/quote]

Very good point...I have to remember this quote from you :D

By the way, is Sha Poe Ryu a style or just a name you made up?

RE: What's a better school?

Sha Poe Ryu — Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:47:35 GMT

Very good question and insight !

I have taught mixed martial arts for almost 25-years and I have to say champion type teacher v/s a true trainer !

Expeirance is a must and when you find a good solid trainer you will soon find out if you lissen that he has expeirance other wise how could he train anyone !

A good trainer who traines champions will tell you the champion was a good student.

Good question.

RE: What's a better school?

Sport Karate — Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:42:33 GMT

It doesn't matter...as long as the instructor can teach well. The rest is up to the students on how hard they want to work and how bad they want to win in tournaments.

RE: What's a better school?

Flying Bo — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 12:43:39 GMT

:w00t: Good question!

Being a world champion is definitely a good publicity. It also shows that they have all the skills necessary to win a tournament. Plus, it a good motivator for their students. As long as, of course, the world champion instructor actually teaches and is motivating.

On the other hand, just because you don't have the skills to win a world champion does not mean that you are unable to develop your students into world champions.

Teaching, as with "what style is better?" type question, really depends on the individual. You can also have an instructor that WAS a world champion 5-10 years ago and now weighs 100 lbs more than when he was competing, bad attitude, or can't show or explain techniques and philosophies well. So, does world champion title really make a difference in the training or just in the marketing? Think about it. ;)

What's a better school?

Kicker — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:10:30 GMT

I read Sport Karate's post (http://www.martialweb.com/forums/Topic78-39-1.aspx#bm85) and got me thinking about schools out there. This is no means an insult to anyone but want to hear what you think. I respect all talents and those who has the focus to start a school.

After reading the post, I asked myself if a school that is owned and operated by someone who's been teaching for a while (and maybe produced some champions) is better than a school that is owned and operated by a grand champion...or vice versa. I find it to be good toss up.

I'm sure there are some grand masters out there who hasn't won a championship. But being a champion doesn't mean you can teach.